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msilverstar

the other kind of female internet porn

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Mar. 21st, 2009 | 11:27 pm
mood: thoughtful

Walrus Magazine article: The Other Porn Addiction: Why are ordinary women exposing themselves online? and The Porn Identity: Stacey May Fowles in conversation with Hal Niedzviecki on privacy and internet pornography. (Link via Andrew Sullivan blog)

The "Porn Addiction" they're talking about is, "adult women of all ages, shapes, and sizes, from across the world, to post erotic images of themselves for viewing by thousands, if not millions, of people online."

It's the opposite of the fandom. We fans focus on characters or actors and tend to objectify them, rather than becoming the objects of attention. This is especially true for fanfiction of the porny variety, where we denigrate authorial self-inserts as Mary Sues. And once you get to m/m slash fic... Maybe slashers are on the extreme side of a backlash, as far from the female body-revealing kind of porn as possible, focusing away from ourselves and onto men. Hot sexy men.

I'm not sure what it all means, these wild extremes, and I wonder what's going on. Do straight men do anything in these extremes? Where does the lesbian porn come in? What about gay men, they seem more straightforward but what am I missing? Thoughts?
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Comments {27}

Hope

(no subject)

from: angstslashhope
date: Mar. 22nd, 2009 04:06 pm (UTC)
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It's not around so much any more (or maybe the communities I'm in aren't into the practice so much?) but the habit of fangirls posting pics of their boobies to their flist was not uncommon once upon a time... whether it's "hay i was mucking around with my digicam, lookit me!" posts or icons of fangirl cleavage... i think there are big connects between that practice and the safe space of fannish community. It sort of reclaims exposure as something to celebrate rather than objectify (though it still seeks (and gets!) the response of "you're so hot!" from the chosen audience). So it's a similar practice to "ordinary women exposing themselves online" but at the same time pretty synonymous with fandom :)

/ramble

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 22nd, 2009 04:34 pm (UTC)
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That is really interesting, I think I caught the tail-end of it on JF around the Est and Fandom Wank, and never quite understood it.

I see it as a bit of a link between the two extremes, and wonder why it died down.

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 03:09 am (UTC)
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*raising my hand as a gay man into m/m slash.*

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 05:02 am (UTC)
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Always good to get another perspective. The whole thing is perplexing to me. I know guys post pictures of themselves at dating sites, but would you or men you know, when in a relationship, post naked photos of selves? Would it be different if you knew straight men and women were looking?

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 05:11 am (UTC)
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The guy I'm with actually stole my web cam the other week so he could cyber with someone. Which makes no sense, because he has one of his own, but whatever.

Personally, though, I've got a lot of my own insecurities that makes it hard for me to even take my shirt off at the pool, 130 degree summers be damned. I find a lot of physical porn aesthetically displeasing, though. I prefer fiction and drawn porn over photographs or videos.

However, there's a big problem with relying on created media in this case, and it goes back to gender. Most of it out there is drawn or written by women who, quite frankly, have no idea how the male body works. Often, I find myself scratching my head, trying to work out the mechanics of a scene, or something somebody drew, and I leave just feeling confused and ripped off lol.

It's part of the reason I got into writing and drawing porn/slash, myself. It started off as me just wanting to see if it's really as hard as some of these people make it out to be, but I've recently turned the slash part into my own personal vendetta against a lot of fiction out there. The stuff written by women ignores the dirtier, more organic aspects of sex, and it's something that I don't think should be ignored. Men treat sex and relationships differently from women a lot of the time, and so it's always quite refreshing to come across other guys in fandom.


So, really, as someone else said below, posting fic in and of itself is quite revealing about myself. I write first for me, and secondly for friends I met through fandom, so a lot of my own personal kinks and likes tend to show through.

Edited at 2009-03-23 05:13 am (UTC)

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goddamn existentialist

(no subject)

from: rinmonsterer
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 01:24 pm (UTC)
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Men treat sex and relationships differently from women a lot of the time, and so it's always quite refreshing to come across other guys in fandom.

As a woman dabbling in gay fiction and reading tons of this stuff, I must say: WORD. I'm mostly in QAF fandom and it's curious how even in a fandom based on series which spits at every heterosexual stereotype there is, so many authors impose heteronormative girl-fantasies on gay men.

I don't want to seem creepy, but if you'd like to elaborate on those differences, I'd be very grateful to learn (: Here or PM, whichever suits you?

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:42 am (UTC)
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Traditionally, men have been thought of as more visually stimulated, so your guy with the web cam fits with that.

Just occurred to me that I will role-play full on pornographically detailed sex, often kinky, and it's all completely text. That's nearly the opposite of the webcam, but it fits the female "story" stereotype nicely.

As for the organic aspects of sex, I like to be realistic, including anatomical possibilities and the effects of gravity. But that's my preference, and I have a nice male partner to try things out on. Interestingly enough, many of the lesbian authors I know write quite realistic slash.

For a lot of other female slashers, this is not about realism, it's their fantasy, and they don't actually have to worry about who is shorter and refractory times and stuff like that. It's a smutty fairy tale to them. Which explains a lot about their tolerance of purple prose, simplistic characterization, and unrealistic sex.

I do write for myself and for friends, and one of my friends pointed out that many of my stories have a political angle: my Viggo/Ian gay marriage one is just the most obvious. And I write het a lot too: that's almost political in slasher circles :-/

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:47 am (UTC)
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Yeah, my guy thinks it's totally weird that I prefer IM role play over webcam stuff. The only reason I even have one is because I like to record myself when I draw, and I have it aimed down at my desk.

I've had a dedicated RP partner for a while, and we never play as ourselves; it's always fandom RP, and she's pretty damn good at it.

I've only written two het pieces. Ever. Because as worldly and open minded as I like to pretend that I am, I practically piss myself whenever I see a vagina D:

Edited at 2009-03-24 01:48 am (UTC)

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:58 am (UTC)
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Good point about the not-selves in role-play. Writing a dominant man has definitely been an education.

Have you ever tried Google Docs? Using the word processor there gives lots more context than with just IM. We like to write fic-style with alternating POV, and meta in IM.

Very open-minded of you to write het. well done ;-)

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:59 am (UTC)
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Yes. And we broke it. Three times.

We kept exceeding the word limit, and then losing the entire document. D:

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 02:06 am (UTC)
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ohes noes!

*note to self: download backups frequently*

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 02:08 am (UTC)
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A lot of our RP is more face-paced, anyway. Very rarely do we decide that the other needs to read a wall of text before taking their turn.

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:52 am (UTC)
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Also, the wtf about the webcam is because we each have one of our own. But he chose to take mine down from its mount lol

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:58 am (UTC)
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Yours is nicer?

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Ix

(no subject)

from: alpha_orionis_v
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 02:00 am (UTC)
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I have no idea.

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Beemer

(no subject)

from: dr_tectonic
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 05:29 am (UTC)
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*also here as a queer dude into slash*

Oh yeah. I wouldn't post nekkid pix of myself, but lots and lots of guys in relationships do. And I expect they know that straight women are looking, if they stop to think about it.

Although an interesting factor to consider is that there are quite a few gay men in committed but sexually open relationships, so being in a relationship doesn't mean they stop posting on dating sites. For that matter, lots of couples post there as well...

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 29th, 2009 01:37 am (UTC)
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Open relationships would make posting pictures of selves less of an issue, I can see that.

Do straight men ever do it I wonder?

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Beemer

(no subject)

from: dr_tectonic
date: Mar. 29th, 2009 06:34 am (UTC)
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I know for sure that there are straight guys, some of them married, who do solo porn for gay audiences.

I suspect that for a lot of exhibitionists, the question of who's watching isn't nearly as important as whether there are people watching, period...

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Apr. 3rd, 2009 06:55 am (UTC)
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Exhibitionists, duh, of course!

Though, the women but not their husbands part of it is still a bit skeevy.

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stormatdusk

(no subject)

from: stormatdusk
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 03:18 am (UTC)
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all new to me. very interesting!

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 05:03 am (UTC)
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Yeah, I can't really imagine... But then, I post my stories and god knows those are revealing.

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paperclipchains

Here from metafandom

from: paperclipchains
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 03:36 am (UTC)
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I think it's apples and oranges, really... you're comparing consuming porn versus being a subject in them.

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Lotripper

Re: Here from metafandom

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 05:07 am (UTC)
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I think, you're right, I am looking at the differences between apples and oranges, because they're both fruit but so very different from trees and birds and mammals. Subject, object, creator, consumer, and more than one at the same time...

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Your eyes are blocking my starlight

(no subject)

from: aerynvala
date: Mar. 23rd, 2009 09:58 am (UTC)
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I think that sometimes, yes, slash fandom provides me the ultimate safe haven from being an object.

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Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:07 am (UTC)
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It does feel like we control the horizontal, we control the vertical. More power to us :-)

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(Deleted comment)

Lotripper

(no subject)

from: msilverstar
date: Mar. 24th, 2009 01:06 am (UTC)
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Well, in this case he did write the article. But I see what you mean -- he may be getting the entire thing wrong.

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